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1. Without replacing the thermal paste on the processor, under any kind of load the machine will overheat quickly, under clock, and kill the benefits that came with the price. The bios update has helped a bit with this. I could retest to see how long it takes if it would help your decision.
3. I've heard that 7200rpm is quite a bit better than 5400, however I can't speak to it myself. However, the physics of the situation suggests to me that the HDD is not the largest sap on your power, but don't believe me, Google it yourself.
5. Bluetooth should be able to support multiple devices at the same time, me and a couple friends were trying to LAN Halo (unsuccessfully due to unfamiliarity) with it.
It's a bit hard to say if they are worth it though, I'm not sure how you value money.
Alright So I have some questions about configuration:
1. Whats the differance between the zm86 and zm87? is the $50 worth it?
2. Any one have any comments on the performance differance between 8gb and 4gb? I mean I know 8 is higher and increeses boot times and program speed. But im currious: How fast is 8gb. I mean like boot times, ect.
3. 500gb 7200 vs 5400 rpm's alright I know 5400 is slower, but uses less battery, while 7200 is more battery and faster. Is there really this much differance in speed? How about battery life?
4. Wireless N vs Wireless N + bluetooth. Ive played with bluetooh, but I have some questions, can you use more then 1 device with bluetooth.... like if I wanted to use a bluetooth headset and then a bluetooth mouse.... would that work? Or cause some conflicts?
5. Is anyone really going to move to the new site or just stay here on the good old Touchsmart Community?
Any other thoughts?
Ps if you want some cheep batterys I know where you can get some nice used 6 cells. If there dead just call hp and tell them you need a new battery.
Peace!
<br> For Sale <br>
Tx2z-1300 // ZM-87 2.4ghz // 8gb // 1.5tb 7200 rpm// FP + Webcam // N + Blue tooth // 7 Pro//
- member since: 07/21/2009
- rank: 22 of 12556
- 11 forum threads started
- 271 comments
1. Whats the differance between the zm86 and zm87? is the $50 worth it?
A: The HT speeds are 2200 instead of 1800, and the CPU uses 2X1MB L2 Cache for the ZM-87 vs shared 2MB for the ZM-86. Benchmarks have shows a substantial performance increase using the 87 vs the 86. I have the ZM-87 myself and would like to do benchmarks vs other TX2 owners to see exactly how much of a increase it is if anyone is interested. IMO it is worth it, but thats up to you. Regarding Prototypes comment, that is not directly the case. Without the Bios update and undervolting the unit does run quite hot and will clock itself down to compensate, but with the bios and undervolt, this is sufficently well contained. Do not let his comment scare you off.
2. Any one have any comments on the performance differance between 8gb and 4gb?
Not worth it for this laptop. Your boot times will not noticeably increase on this particular machine with the extra RAM. The 4GB option is sufficient. When doing specialized AV rendering and other memory intensive apps more is useful, but that's not the sort of thing this laptop is designed for.
3. 500gb 7200 vs 5400 rpm.
Its a tradeoff. Speed and performance with the 7200 RPM drive, but less battery life and more heat. Worthwhile upgrade IMO, but I am sure there are other views out there. Best option would be to just get an SSD, little to no heat, insane performance, greatly increased battery life since less power draw.
4. Wireless N vs Wireless N + bluetooth.
Yes, you can use multiple bluetooth devices without any issues.
Moderator - Creator of Tx2 Touchsmart All in one Installer.
Touchsmart Tx2z Laptop: AMD ZM-87 CPU, 4gb Corsair DDR2 2x2gb, 256gb Corsair Performance SSD, Windows 7 Ultimate Signature Edition.
jollywombat: Best option would be to just get an SSD, little to no heat, insane performance, greatly increased battery life since less power draw.
Ok question... how much longer battery do you get with a SSD? Part of me wants to get one but I don't wanna throw up the extra $$$ dollars for a larger one.
And on the ram issue. I was curious because I got lucky on eBay and won a 8gb corsair kit for 250.
PrototypeNM1:
I know replacing the thermal paste would void my warranty if hp actually put 1 & 1 together..... not likely. So what would you recommend for a replacement, i was thinking arctic silver but I don't know.
<br> For Sale <br>
Tx2z-1300 // ZM-87 2.4ghz // 8gb // 1.5tb 7200 rpm// FP + Webcam // N + Blue tooth // 7 Pro//
From what I hear, you can't go wrong with Artic Silver, however theoretically diamond based thermal pastes should be the best ones, in a quick Google search I found some diamond based paste for under $30.
I just stress tested the machine, and it peaked at 90C, unfortunately I wasn't able to record when it underclocked, so I'm not sure if the computer is compensating by underclocking sooner or managing some other aspect in a better manner.
jollywombat - "Best option would be to just get an SSD, little to no heat, insane performance, greatly increased battery life since less power draw."
All benchmarks I have seen do not show any kind of greatly increased battery life, much less one to justify the price unless one simply has the expendable cash, of which is not the case since ragged wouldn't be asking what's worth the price otherwise. Additionally, SSDs, unless TRIM has significantly fixed this problem, slow down quickly and have questionably limited life from degradation from rewrites.
Dollar-to-dollar, upgrading to the 7200rpm drive is just a better deal right now, SSDs haven't come into their prime, and if you jump on now, you'll find that waiting half a year could have doubled your memory or halved the price.
Use IC7 compound. Best Diamond thermal paste I have used to date.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7038/thr-41/Innovation_Cooling_Diamond_7_Ca...
Sorry, I should define greatly increased battery life. I mean that in regards to a system upgrade that can increase your battery life (or at least mine) by 30min average up to 45 mins using the right conditions (consistent HD usage with low power settings enabled, 8 Cell Battery). I tested this with my 7200rpm 250gb WD Scorpio drive.
Regarding the slowdowns, this is for the most part incorrect these days as is a number of other issues you spoke of Prototype. That used to be the case, but with newer firmware and controllers, SSD's are very good about keeping their speeds. The majority of latest drives out there support self healing features (a sort of firmware only run trim basically, no OS interaction) that will automatically reclaim the deleted space on the drives (which is what causes the slowdowns) when the computer is idle, and when Trim support is finalized, that will further help the matter.
Most users will never have to deal with that sort of issue these days, and the few that do, can restore their drive to factory speeds by imaging their drive to a backup, doing a secure erase, then imaging the drive back; very fast procedure, no data loss. (This is mostly for the older drive/firmware users who have to do this on occasion).
Their limited life spans are also a thing of the past, as the newer flash memory being implemented are excellent and are at normal mechanical drive failure time frames now.
Keeping up to date on the changes and advancements in SSD drives is needed since it was a new technology a few years back and has undergone a lot of changes since then. All of what you said used to be true up until recently and a major concern Prototype, but most of those issues are ironed out these days thankfully
You are correct though on the dollar for dollar, the 7200 is the way to go if you have money considerations, but if you have a little extra cash and want the insane performance benefits and extra battery life/less heat... SSD is an option. But again, as Prototype stated, waiting on it will yield better devices with same price points, just like everything else in the world; something new and better will come out.
Moderator - Creator of Tx2 Touchsmart All in one Installer.
Touchsmart Tx2z Laptop: AMD ZM-87 CPU, 4gb Corsair DDR2 2x2gb, 256gb Corsair Performance SSD, Windows 7 Ultimate Signature Edition.
I have to disagree with the 8 vs 4GB thing here.
I have 8GB of ram installed and it is a LOT faster in boot times and in responsiveness.
Kinda expensive though......
Having Trouble with your TX2 Series Tablet and Linux? Join us at the Touchsmart Linux Group.
http://www.touchsmartdevzone.com/group/3/Touch-Smart-with-Linux/
Digikid said: I have to disagree with the 8 vs 4GB thing here. I have 8GB of ram installed and it is a LOT faster in boot times and in responsiveness. Kinda expensive though......
I got a 8gb kit for 240...vs 400 im happy.
<br> For Sale <br>
Tx2z-1300 // ZM-87 2.4ghz // 8gb // 1.5tb 7200 rpm// FP + Webcam // N + Blue tooth // 7 Pro//
raggedrebel92 said:for THAT much!??!?!? LINK PLEASE!!!!!!!Digikid said: I have to disagree with the 8 vs 4GB thing here. I have 8GB of ram installed and it is a LOT faster in boot times and in responsiveness. Kinda expensive though......I got a 8gb kit for 240...vs 400 im happy.
Having Trouble with your TX2 Series Tablet and Linux? Join us at the Touchsmart Linux Group.
http://www.touchsmartdevzone.com/group/3/Touch-Smart-with-Linux/
Digikid said:i wish i could give you a link to magic store that could offer that. but i got mine on ebay. some computer repair shop guy was selling ti off. I called the manufacutre and had them checked, there real. so yea. by best bet is try Ebayraggedrebel92 said:for THAT much!??!?!? LINK PLEASE!!!!!!!Digikid said: I have to disagree with the 8 vs 4GB thing here. I have 8GB of ram installed and it is a LOT faster in boot times and in responsiveness. Kinda expensive though......I got a 8gb kit for 240...vs 400 im happy.
<br> For Sale <br>
Tx2z-1300 // ZM-87 2.4ghz // 8gb // 1.5tb 7200 rpm// FP + Webcam // N + Blue tooth // 7 Pro//
Would you be able to provide some benchmark proof please Digi?
I ask that because I was debating on that upgrade myself shortly after getting my tx2z so borrowed a friend's 8gb kit to test with and see if it would actually make any difference since I was skeptical that this platform would benefit due to heavy CPU/GPU limitations.
Was approx a 3 second difference in boot times, no noticeable application performance increase (games, excessive applications running (CPU ends up being a bottleneck long before RAM which is what hold this unit back). (This was done using Win7 RC7100) If you have a good performance laptop or desktop then 8gb of RAM will be utilized and worthwhile, just not in this low powered laptop.
So I will stick with my original comment that I tested. The 8gb ram upgrade for this unit does not provide any tangible benefit, especially considering the cost. I would spend the extra money on better HDD, or an SSD which will massively increase your boot times and application responsiveness. Congrats though on the insanely cheap price for that kit, I am jealous :)
Moderator - Creator of Tx2 Touchsmart All in one Installer.
Touchsmart Tx2z Laptop: AMD ZM-87 CPU, 4gb Corsair DDR2 2x2gb, 256gb Corsair Performance SSD, Windows 7 Ultimate Signature Edition.
Ok, I just ran some tests with the processor, but I want to get one thing out of the way first. The OP needs to specify what they were planning on using the computer for, if it is for playing games, then I do not believe the processor update will be worth it, based on some non-scientific tests I ran.
Beforehand, note:
I have NOT undervolted
I have NOT replaced the thermal paste
I have done a fresh install of Windows 7
I have updated the motherboard's firmware
I was running at Max Performance with tweaked settings
I was running plugged in with the battery still in
I stress tested with Orthos under "Small FFTs - stress CPU"
I tracked the CPU clock with CPUID's CPU-Z
I ran this test right after it had been in sleep mode long enough to fully cool down
Under the above environment, the processor first under clocked to 1.2Ghz nearly 3 minutes in. At around 6 minutes it seemed to be consistently jumping between the two settings, spending approximately 1/3 of the time underclocked. This is very approximate, but at that rate one is getting around 2Ghz performance when averaged out.
I would personally like to investigate this further, so could anyone help me with the following:
Could anyone suggest a better program of which to test this under, for a more accurate reading?
Could anyone test a best case scenario where the laptop, running zm87 undervolted with new thermal paste?
Could anyone test the zm86?
jollywombat said: Would you be able to provide some benchmark proof please Digi? I ask that because I was debating on that upgrade myself shortly after getting my tx2z so borrowed a friend's 8gb kit to test with and see if it would actually make any difference since I was skeptical that this platform would benefit due to heavy CPU/GPU limitations. Was approx a 3 second difference in boot times, no noticeable application performance increase (games, excessive applications running (CPU ends up being a bottleneck long before RAM which is what hold this unit back). (This was done using Win7 RC7100) If you have a good performance laptop or desktop then 8gb of RAM will be utilized and worthwhile, just not in this low powered laptop. So I will stick with my original comment that I tested. The 8gb ram upgrade for this unit does not provide any tangible benefit, especially considering the cost. I would spend the extra money on better HDD, or an SSD which will massively increase your boot times and application responsiveness. Congrats though on the insanely cheap price for that kit, I am jealous :)
Sorry but I cannot...it was a lend and not mine. I am back to the original 4GB that came with the Lappy.
When I get 8GB Cheap enough I will gladly benchmark it for you though.
Having Trouble with your TX2 Series Tablet and Linux? Join us at the Touchsmart Linux Group.
http://www.touchsmartdevzone.com/group/3/Touch-Smart-with-Linux/
To answer the questions of "what will I be using it for":
Well mainly:
Notes / Internet / Office Applications /Chat
Multi tasking various of the above. (example: power point, word, bloodrayne, aim and then utorrent)
Once in a while:
Roller coaster tycoon 3 / Bloodrayne 2 / stronghold // Converting / recording VHS to DVD and 45 rpm to CD // Movie Maker
Like I said in the past, I bought the 8gb mainly because you can never have to much ram, and I multi task alot. I mean alot. usually 20 or so windows / tabbs open on a given date. Thats why I want a lot of power under the hood with CPU. So yes. I think ima go all out with it.
I might go with pulling the whool over HP's eyes and replace my cpu paste.
Also: Sidebar...... does anyone know of some lil trick or device that you can plug into the ac adapter port and use like 2 min power while I can switch to one of my 6 back up batterys? shutting down / hybernating gets annoying.
Thanks yall!
<br> For Sale <br>
Tx2z-1300 // ZM-87 2.4ghz // 8gb // 1.5tb 7200 rpm// FP + Webcam // N + Blue tooth // 7 Pro//
I have the ZM-87 CPU. For my setup:
I HAVE undervolted.
I HAVE replaced the thermal paste
I have a fairly fresh copy of Win7 installed (I can put a compleatly fresh copy on if need be, but disabled all non-standard services and programs while doing this test)
System Bios is at lastest F.21 revision.
Set power management to Max Performance (Decided to leave values stock for better testing for everyone)
Unit was plugged in and so was the battery
Stress tested using Prime 95 Small FFT (Maximum Heat/CPU stress) running two workers.
Ambient room temperature @ 72f controled when the series of three 10 minute long tests were done.
First test was performed after allowing the unit to compleatly cool down in sleep. Second and Third tests were performed after normal operation.
Something to note, I have the 8 cell battery, so it lifts the back of the unit up off the desk which will probably have a positive affect on system cooling.
All tests resulted in no CPU underclocking (Watched frequency via CPU-Z) Heat output peaked @ 91c, averaged around 87-88c after a warm up period ~3 minutes (Viewed via HWmonitor).
Would you run your tests again using HWmonitor so we know what temps you are reaching for the CPU to undervolt? Also, what CPU do you have exactly, what tweaks did you apply for the power profile, and what was the temperature of the envoirment in which it was tested. Last up, would you be willing to run a CPU benchmark so we can get some data sharing started on how the CPU's perform as compaired to other models?
Awesome work Prototype =)
Moderator - Creator of Tx2 Touchsmart All in one Installer.
Touchsmart Tx2z Laptop: AMD ZM-87 CPU, 4gb Corsair DDR2 2x2gb, 256gb Corsair Performance SSD, Windows 7 Ultimate Signature Edition.
I certainly can and whence I get the time.
Just realized something too, I'm running a ZM-86. When did the ZM-87 get added to the options? Could have sworn I maxed that. >_>
Thus, my argument about the ZM-86 v. ZM-87 was based off the wrong assumptions, you should be right on all accounts.
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In 3DMark06, I hover around 1700, usually a little under.
Other specs: 4GB RAM, 320GB 5400RPM HDD, 6 Cell Battery
Run this benchmark if you wouldnt mind, the CPU test, and copy the results as text and paste them here. Interested to see exactly what the extra HT speed does for the ZM-87 vs the 86.
http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm
Moderator - Creator of Tx2 Touchsmart All in one Installer.
Touchsmart Tx2z Laptop: AMD ZM-87 CPU, 4gb Corsair DDR2 2x2gb, 256gb Corsair Performance SSD, Windows 7 Ultimate Signature Edition.
Ran it with default High performance.
CPU-
Mark: 1506.3
Integer Math: 269.2
Floating Point math: 837.4
Find Prime Numbers: 252.3
SSE: 7.2
Compression: 1612.4
Encryption: 7.6
Physics: 81.0
String Sorting: 1006.0
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