I had a feeling that that would come up. I'll give just one example where Windows actually does precisely the same thing: Media Center. Microsoft does not give you the UI styles and elements that make Media Center what it is, yet they let you put your own applications in. Charlie Owen has discussed the reasons why at length on his blog.

I imagine there would be an equal but opposite reaction if the HP TouchSmart software were to force all applications to take on exactly the look and feel of HP TouchSmart. People wouldn't be able to differentiate in that situation, which some would see as bad.

There is a certain amount of continuity achieved by having HP TouchSmart create the "chrome" around the medium tiles, similar to how Windows creates the "chrome" for desktop application windows.

This is what I was referring to, I thought it might have been a problem posting that xaml:

http://shrinkster.com/140m

-Joe

Actually, it's probably a question of ControlTemplates rather than Styles.

But I've got to go with JoeS on this one. Which is it HP? The Guidelines tell us everything needs to look the same, starting with the Darth Vader background. Yet they don't want to make it easy to follow those same Guidelines. IMHO: every time something is created with open standards, e.g. the IBM PC, an ecosystem of symbiosis developes around it. And in a strictly proprietary environment, e.g. the MacIntosh, there is no incentive so it remains on the margins as something "for the rest of us".

Will

Will D. said: Actually, it's probably a question of ControlTemplates rather than Styles. But I've got to go with JoeS on this one. Which is it HP? The Guidelines tell us everything needs to look the same, starting with the Darth Vader background. Yet they don't want to make it easy to follow those same Guidelines. IMHO: every time something is created with open standards, e.g. the IBM PC, an ecosystem of symbiosis developes around it. And in a strictly proprietary environment, e.g. the MacIntosh, there is no incentive so it remains on the margins as something "for the rest of us". Will

Darth Vader background, eh? Feel free to use a different background color.

I'm not sure that much more is asked for in the guidelines than that an app be able to support theme color changes (which, incidentally, there is no mechanism for setting yet, so you could leave that out for now). There are no requirements on look and feel otherwise, as far as I remember. It's mostly sizing of controls and making sure you have only one window. A lot of the other stuff is just there to make sure things follow good rules for touchability.

TieDude,
You're coming off as way too defensive. This is professional, not personal. And, if we didn't love the product we wouldn't even care. Maybe make the next one a decaf.

JoeS,
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say there's no value to develop for the TouchSmart er shell (is it a shell?). But since the environment is not quite as open or inviting as it might be, it does give one pause. And it's already changed from being hosted the by Media Center . . . I'm thinking that it might be expediant as well as an interesting challenge to use the Composite Application Guidance for WPF and architect for multiple target environments, including TouchSmart and possibly the Side Bar (or something just like it.), Media Center, as a regular application and/or your own shell environment. Yeah, I know that they are all very different. And yeah, I know that that is contrary to the Guidelines. But we can dream can't we? Maybe if I get laid off . . .

Will

I think the the Composite Application Guidance is a nice application block, but I'd consider it out of band. I'd like to see either MEF, which is currently out of band but will be in .Net 4.0, or, System.AddIn used. With that said, I think it is too much to ask of HP. I'm sure they have a budget and designing a public facing API is a lot of work. They would ultimately need to rewrite the entire codebase. I've been designing and coding public facing API's and extensible frameworks for a long time now so I have an idea of the work that is involved. What it comes down to is probably waiting for Windows 7 and .Net 4.0 and maybe someone will build (either HP or some 3rd party) a true touch friendly host application that can aggregate some cool touch addins. If I wasn't so busy at work I'd probably start writing one.

JoeS said: With that said, I think it is too much to ask of HP. I'm sure they have a budget and designing a public facing API is a lot of work.

JoeS,

I definitely agree. I didn't mean for HP to do it.  I assume that they've already done exactly what they planned to do.  If we want something different, then that's our problem. 

But what does the TouchSmart shell really offer in terms of services.  Speaking from the naive perspective of not having tried anything yet, it doesn't look like much.  It loads your app and displays it in the shell.  After that, it's all you, right?  (Unless you care about multi-touch, that is, and so far I don't. )  What's to stop you from reusing that same code with a different shell / container?  Chances are excellent that I don't know what I'm talking about but that's the approach I'm planning on trying.

Will

GeekTieGuy said: Sorry. Didn't mean to. Wish I could really explain the situation so you could see where I'm coming from. Diet Coke okay? Can't stand the aftertaste, though. I'll stick to regular Coke.

GTG,

I wish you could too.  Actually, I wish you hadn't alluded to there being a "situation"  to explain because, of course, now one has to wonder if something is up.  Hopefully patience will resolve that one.  Also hopefully the TouchSmart line (and team) is strong enough to weather whatever response to the ecconomic maladies HP feels it needs to make.

 Will

I don't know, but someone thought that was a good design decision. Could have been done for lack of funding, but we won't know for sure.